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Wanted Nissan CA18det Cal file please

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  • Chris
    replied
    The 008 has active dwell control and is suitable for many coils. It is not possible to use 4 channels with 008, as they will run in start up dwell mode at idle and usually burns out the coils. It is possible to use two ignition outputs to drive four 008 and this will work with good success.


    Availability of the 008 is becoming limited as I believe Bosch has stopped production.

    Some two channel cdi's may drive two coils per channel, it is a question of each coils own mutual inductance.

    Dwell board option may be dependent on ecu serial #. Early ecu's require a wire in dwell board, later have a plug in board. I believe the wire in service is no longer available.

    Leave a comment:


  • sarde
    replied
    Good day Linus,

    From reading your post it would appear that there’s still some misunderstanding surrounding the ignition solutions which the SMC can support. You really only have two clear options of what is possible. If the SMC box doesn’t have a dwell board fitted, which I am assuming is the case for you, the output signal coming from the ignition channel will have to be sent to a CDI box and the CDI box will in turn drive the ignition coils (READ: you are not to use coils with internal ignitors in a CDI solution). You must remember that the signals coming from the SMC ignition channels are ignition pulses, if these signals are observed with a DVOM or an oscilloscope it will be normal to see that it isn’t the sort of signals which can operate a coil; ignition systems will not function in the manner. There are a number of CDI boxes which can be purchased new as well as used. A few of the common (popular) ones are the MDS DIS-2 and MSD DIS-4. The best suited model depends on how many coils you are looking to support as well as how many ignition channels you are working with. Autronic offers the 500R which can be considered a little on the expensive but it is highly reliable and super-efficient. M&W makes quite a few models you can choose from, such as the Pro10, Pro12 and Pro14 (single coil, two coil and 4 coil support respectively) all the way through to the high end Pro DRAG series. These are the brands and models I would advise based on my own working experience. I will agree that they’re not cheap but such is the nature of your options based on the model ECU you have chosen. What I can tell you is that there are usually decent deals available in the Buy & Sell section of the forum. Some of the sellers may even be able to guide you with some basic instructions as to how they were using the units from an installation perspective so that you might be able to replicate it on your own.

    Okay, that was the CDI solution. For non-CDI solutions your options are quite limited. The SMC can be fitted with a dwell board thereby making allowances for the output signal to now have dwell instructions as well as ignition pulse data. The alternative to CDI would be IDI, and for IDI solutions an ignitor must be fitted to the ignition circuit. The ignitor will prevent (guard) the fly-back coming of a collapsed coil (inductive process) from the ECU. So for an IDI solution it is most likely that you will need to fit a dwell board to the ECU and install an ignitor between the coil and the ECU. Please note that the ignitor must match the coil being used and by that I mean they must be compatible. One of the tasks an ignitor undertakes is preventing the damaging effects of coil saturation by using a maximum dwell fail-safe. Excessive or damaging coil saturation is whereby the coil is left in a charging state too long relative to supply voltage and engine speed allowing the coil to suffer severe thermal abuse. Having said this, there is an instance where you may use the SMC in an IDI strategy without fitting a dwell board. If you read through the SMC manual, there are a few illustrations showing the Bosch 227 022 008 ignitor module being used to accept ignition pulse signals directly from the SMC and controlling dumb coils (two terminal/pin coils). In this case, the very specific Bosch ignitor module provides the dwell instructions used to operate the coil in addition to guarding (protecting) the SMC against the fly-back of the inductive coil being used. The trouble with this scenario is that the specific Bosch module noted isn’t in production today and so they can’t be purchased new. Finding these modules can be a huge task by itself and most users shy away from this. Please note that the specific Bosch module in question can only support a single coil, you will as many Bosch modules as they are coils present in your ignition solution.

    What you also have to keep in mind is that the dwell control of the Bosch module can limit the coil selection you have at your disposal based on the fact that the dwell is fixed and can’t be manually adjusted to suit the efficiency of the coil’s internal wound configuration. This brings me to the core question which should be considered before any ignition solution is derived, what are the spark energy needs? If you can answer this question definitely then your available options, budget or extravagant can be realized very early in a clear manner. The coils being used for a CDI solution differ (READ: not incompatible) from those which will be used in an IDI solution. In an IDI solution the amount of available spark energy is dependent on the primary and secondary wound configuration within the coil(s). The configuration of these wounds will dictate (relative to dwell instructions used) how much spark energy the spark plug sees, it does this by way of the inductive process. If you are unclear on the inductive process please indicate this. However, with a CDI solution, the spark energy is dependent on the capacitor configuration within the CDI box itself as well as the primary voltage supply and less dependent on the coils as the coils operate more like a pulse transformers rather than an energy storage medium as it does in an IDI solution. If you can take something away from reading this I would hope that it is the understanding that ignition solutions, be it CDI or IDI, need to be configured correctly to ensure consistent reliable performance with very little to no failure related instances.

    In hindsight, I forgot to mention that if a dwell board is fitted there are a couple OEM ignitor and coil combinations which will work great. A good example would be the OEM setup on the 4G63 found in the Mitsubishi Evo 1, 2 or 3 (USDM/DSM Mitsubishi Eclipse Gen 1 and Gen2) as well as the Coil on plug and coil pack setup on the Subaru WRX STI version 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 I believe. I am not familiar with the VAG coils you mentioned but from what little reading I’ve done online about it, it would appear that these coils have internal ignitors and as such they are not suitable for direct used with the SMC. Non-ignitor integrated coils (dumb coils/coils with two pins only) work best with the appropriate CDI or IDI solutions supported by the SMC. If you would like to use coils with the ignitor integrated then your best option would be a SM3 or SM4. Quite frankly, and I mean no disrespect here, it sounds as though you may have been much better off should you have chosen to purchase a used SM3 or SM4. Again, some of the early variant of the SM3 and SM4 can be found on the Buy & Sell section of the forum for prices which are extremely feasible more often than not. Although the SMC can be purchased at very low prices in comparison, the additional items needed to make a complete functional system out of them would often rival the price of a used SM4 or SM3 from the very early generation. Believe me when I tell you this as I am speaking from experience!

    Once again, I really hope you are back on track now. However, should anything be unclear or if there’s any doubt about what you are doing please feel free to respond accordingly with a follow up post and I will try to assist as best as I can. No worries with the many follow up questions; none of them are stupid by the way. I will be hoping that I may be able to answer your questions in a much more productive manner. The ideal scenario would be for you to have your nearest Autronic dealer support you in an arrangement which is mutually acceptable, however, at times the ideal can’t be accomplished due to circumstances.

    Cheers Linus!

    Leave a comment:


  • GreenMeenie
    replied
    hello guys, still a bit stuck on the ignition issue...

    As you guys described the SMC need some kind of CDI box. I´ve tried to solder my own circuit to boost the signal so they can drive the VAG coils but with no succes..

    but i found this; http://www.shoeys.com/docs/Bosch_008.pdf
    could that work or will it fry my coils?

    Sorry for all the stupid questions. I am a little bit short on cash, so im trying to solve this as cheaply as possible. therefore the soldering and experementing

    Do you guys any good solutions?

    //Linus

    Leave a comment:


  • sarde
    replied
    Thank you kindly for the clarification Chris.

    I was unaware of the confirmed details surrounding the use of the NTC sensor.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris
    replied
    Autronic SMC from at least firmware 1.10 can use standard Bosch NTC 2500 ohms at 20 degrees C sensor. Requires mode flag change and hardware modification which is addition of link on a resistor. Later ecu's have a jumper link that is simple to add or remove.

    However it should be noted that many NTC sensor designs cannot match the very fast Autronic sensor, their thermal time constants are often considerably slower.

    Leave a comment:


  • sarde
    replied
    No worries Linus, I really hope things go well for you and that you are happy with the Autronic brand.

    Cheers Linus!

    Leave a comment:


  • GreenMeenie
    replied
    thank you Damien! this would have taken so much more time without your help!

    //Linus

    Leave a comment:


  • sarde
    replied
    I'm sorry Linus but the Autronic ECU need a very specific air temperature sensor, especially the SMC ECUs if using anything lower than the v1.99 or v2.00_b firmware. The SM4 and SM3 can use some (not sure which one in particular) NTC sensors but the SMC/SM2 are very specific concerning the AIT needed.

    Here's a link for the exact sensor you would need

    http://www.mrm-racing.se/shop/index....duct&id_lang=1#

    Because the Autronic ECU utilizes a speed density fuel model, the item in question is very critical. So although you may get away with seemingly functional setups using other sensors, the fuel model won't do exactly what it should do and I can tell you that one of the very special things to note about the Autronic ECU is the fuel model.

    Hope this helps you Linus, cheers!

    Leave a comment:


  • GreenMeenie
    replied
    do you guys know what kind of air temp sensor i need?

    would this work, or do i need a specific model?
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/AEM-AIR-INLE...3D171475284177

    Leave a comment:


  • sarde
    replied
    No worries Linus, you're more than welcome anytime.

    Have a great weekend, cheers!

    Leave a comment:


  • GreenMeenie
    replied
    thank you both for the help, now I have an idea how to continue the installation!

    I will post here again if there is some other questions, and thx again for the help guys!

    //Linus

    Leave a comment:


  • sarde
    replied
    Linus,

    Good day to you. I'm sorry but there's no such thing as a stupid question when your objective is to learn and advance your current level of understanding. I my opinion, the MRM-Racing forum is an excellent place to explore the mechanics of electronic engine management solutions, strategies and systems. Much of this is done using the Autronic brand, however, much of what is understood can be applied to any brand.

    With respect to your response on the CAS disc, you have to remember that an incorrect CAS disc doesn't mean that the ECU will not respond. It just means that the ECU won't respond as you would have hoped. It's not outside of the ordinary to get a response such as injectors clicking and signals submitted from the ignition channels. if you were to proceed with the incorrect CAS disc you can expect to see inaccurate engine speed calculations, incorrect injector/ignition events relative to crank angle degrees of rotation and this will eventually lead to the engine being unable to increase in speed (so in effect rev freely).

    Initially, reading the SMC manual was a huge help to me. The manual isn't super easy to read and it assumes that you have a working knowledge of engine operations, electronics and engine management. The great thing is that you have three portals for support to consult when things aren't clear. Your primary support should be your nearest dealer, if this isn't ideal then you should contact the main office in Australia. You may also feel free to post here on the forum where you should get a timely response. I hope this helps you move along in a progressive manner.

    The ignition output signals coming from the SMC won't have anything near what would be needed for the ultimate spark energy needed by the engine for optimal operation. A SMC which doesn't have a dwell board fitted will only submit an ignition pulse, this entails the ignition event relative to crank angle degrees. This pulse can either be sent to a CDI box or it can be sent to an ignitor. When selecting an ignition solution you should take the time to understand the difference between an inductive discharge and a capacitive discharge system as this will enable the great success of consistent, trouble free engine operation.

    I can't explain why the previous owner's setup worked as it did without a detailed break down of how his solution was executed, but the focus should be on how to get your setup fully operational. Having said this, I can take the time to offer you the support needed. Of course, I don't have all of the answers, but I will try my best to give productive responses and constructive instructions.

    Sleeper has give you the link to see what the correct CAS disc looks like and where you can get it. You may also buy this from the Aubert Electronics office in Australia. Sleeper's details on the proposed ignition solution are also correct. If you need further assistance understanding ignition devices as well as the various stages of the ignition system so both primary and secondary.

    Cheers Linus!

    Leave a comment:


  • sleeper
    replied
    to get it to work, you need one of these.

    http://www.mrm-racing.se/shop/index....uct&id_lang=5#

    And you need either a smart ignition module (minimum 2 of them to run 4 coils in wasted spark, or 4 of them as single spark ( single spark is not a good option with ignition modules due to excessive dwell at low rpm ))
    Or you will need a cdi box and run coils without any ignition module built in ( stock sr20 will work! AUDI will NOT work!)

    Reason to this is that the smc can not control dwell time.

    Leave a comment:


  • GreenMeenie
    replied
    Hello Damien, thx for all the help. I am a beginner at this kind of stuff so my knowledge is pretty basic.

    as for the CAS Issue, i get the injectors to "click" and get a 100mV signal from the ignition output. is it suppose to be such a low signal? and is that why i need the cdi box/msd?

    The previous owner of the Ecu used a Nissan CAS same as mine and it worked, thats why im a bit confused, once again im sorry for all the stupid questions but i really want to learn this stuff

    //Linus

    Leave a comment:


  • sarde
    replied
    Linus,

    Great to hear from you, and I hope that all is well. I'm really sorry I don't have a cal file for you to use directly, but instead I can give you as much assistance you need to understand how to use the Autronic ECU as well as complete a thorough installation.

    With the Autronic ECUs the firmware is located on a removable chip, so in light of this, you can add functionality or revise the existing functionality to an ECU by upgrading the chip. So to say that you have a SMC v1.99 means that the ECU is a SMC and the chip version (firmware is 1.99). You are using a v1.99 SMC correct?

    Assuming that the CA18DET Nissan engine uses the standard 360 optical CAS DISC common on most Nissan engines, the SMC won't be able to use the cylinder pulse nor the cylinder reference produced by the CAS DISC. This is the case for two reason, the cylinder pulse signals have too many events and the immediate cylinder pulse event which will follow the cylinder reference signal (positioned at TDC of No 1 cylinder)falls within a crank angle degree that is outside the allowable scope of the SMC v1.99 firmware. The second scenario describes the cylinder lead angle. In this case you can use an Autronic CAS DISC or you can also choose to either the SM3 or SM4 Autronic ECU.

    With respect to your ignition solution, you have to remember that the Autronic SMC as well as the SM2 can only output an ignition pulse if a dwell board isn't fitted. This means that you won't be able to drive coils directly. Most SMC/SM2 installations use a CDI ignition solution where the ignition pulse is sent from the SMC/SM2, fed to a CDI box (MSD DIS-4/M&W Pro14/Autronic 500R) and the output channels of the CDI box will then send the spark energy from a collapsed capacitor to the coils. The other scenario for a SMC/SM2 ignition solution would be to fit a dwell board to the ECU so that the ignition pulse will now have dwell instructions which can now be sent to an ignitor and then on to the coils. When setting up your ignition solution you have to be aware of the spark energy needed, whether you intend to use an IDI or CDI strategy and the coils which will be needed based on both of the previous details. At times it may be easier to map things out on paper with accompanying diagrams to help.

    The injectors you mentioned should be listed as JECS I believe, however, I believe some of the other senior members who are well versed with the Nissan platform can confirm this for you. A few details to note when it comes to injectors aside from the obvious differential pressure and injector flow ratings would be injector drivers fitted to the ECU and the type (saturated or peak and hold) of injectors being used. You can measure the resistance across the injector pins to determine the type of injector and the top cover case of the ECU should have a serial number printed on it which will verify the type of injector drivers fitted to the ECU.

    I'm pretty sure that the boost solenoid valve you mentioned will be able to work. What you have to remember is that you will be using the single auxiliary output available on the SMC to operate the boost solenoid valve. This means that within Relay/Analog OP under M1, you will have to set options 6 which is boost to Aux output. The boost control features are located under M6.

    I've responded to the noted listings you made in your post, however, I have done so with an assumption that you have a working knowledge of a stand alone ECU installation. If you need for me to elaborate please feel free to do so. If you need me to lend assistance in specific areas only, I can also do this as well. Once again, I'm sorry I don't have a working file to distribute but as I stated, I can assist you in a different manner and that's by understanding how to configure a cal file to enable a functional ECU installation.

    Looking forward to your progress, cheers!

    Leave a comment:

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